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  #1    
Old 05-24-03, 10:38 PM
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Relijyon VODOU-Yon chita tande ant Dr Austin Ogunsuyi ak Dr Mamaissi VivianOdelalasi

Jouk jounnen jodi,ti nèg ou ta konprann ki edike ,ap voye pye ak toya kont Vodou.Yon relijyon ke plis ke 100 milyon moun nan Amerik lan pratike.Haiti,Kiba,Brezil,elatriye.
Fòk nou pa bliye,Afriken-Ameriken.
Wi se pa Lwizan sèlman yo pratike Vodou,yo pratike nan anpil kote nanEta Georgia,nan Pine Islands (South Carolina) e yon kote nan S. Carolina yo rele Little Africa.
Pou ti nèg ki ap kritike Relijyon Vodou,petèt se pa iyorans.
Se konsa mwen te tonbe sou yon Chita Tande ant Dr Austin Ogunsuyi ,yon sosyolog Nijeryen ak Dr Mamaissi Vivian Odelelelasi Dansi Hounon.
Dr Vivian O.Dansi se yon Mamaissi (yon Mambo) nan relijyon Vodun.Li se pwofesè "African Philosophy"
Li rete nan Augusta ,Georgia.
Men Chita Tande an:
1-Dr Ogunsuyi
What do you regard as the unique structure of the VODUN?
MAMAISSI VIVIAN
Unlike the strict parameters that are drawn in Western religions between the secular and the non secular worlds,Vodoun is a Tradition that is all encompassing in all aspects of one's life.From the temporal to the spectacular.From pre-birth to the after-life,the Vodoun is all intrinsic in all aspects of one's life.
2-Dr OGUNSUYI
What is the relationship between Vodun and Voodoo.Are they one and the same thing?
MAMAISSI VIVIAN
The relationship is largely one of regional ,linguistic,cultural ,ethnic and even political variations in both its spelling and meaning.In the FON language ,the word "Vodou" simply means "Spirit".The word "Spirit" simply is a term used to describe the specialized Nature divinities served in the "Vodoun" tradition.This is the term and meaning that the majority in the west are familiar with.
However in the EWE language the word "Vudu" not only des cribes the divinities of NATURE,but the entire philosophical and metaphysical essence of the African's existence,and their relationship with both the world of matter and how it interacts with the world of the spirit.This world is viewed as both divine and efficacious,in which the quality of life is predicated upon maintaining a harmonious balance between the two.
When the africans were transported to the New World ,the religion became considerably maligned and actively suppressed by the colonial government.This was because the Vodou's philosophical and political structure and cultural manifestation emphasized the warrior gods who sustained and directly aided the africans in their numerous slave rebellions and ultimately their freedom from the brutal system of chattel slavery forced upon them.
Unfortunately,Vodou's image was controlled by the media of these respective colonial governments and their orthodox religious clergy whom presented it as something "dark,evil and subversive".It is also they who coined the spelling "Voodoo".
Nevertheless ,Vodou's meaning and hidden pratice by the African Diaspora continued to symbolize their active resistance to oppression,as well as aspecial intimacy with Africa,their ancestors and the gods that would not leave their blood.
3-Dr OGUNSUYI
What is the origin of Vodoun
MAMAISSI VIVIAN DANSI
To begin with,most in the west have been taught to attribute both Vodoun's existence and subsequent development exclusively to the FON,a west african ethnic group who inhabit the country of BENIN (The former Dahomean Kingdom)in West Africa and later to Haiti upon its arrival in the New world.
In truth,there were more than 35 differents ethnic groups in West africa extending as far as Southwest Senegal (ancient Ghana) to ABEOKUTAinNIGERIA,who are responsible for the development of the VODUN religion.
From the MINA,EWE,FON,GUA,TCHAMBA,ADJA,YORUBA,NAGO,GOUN,HOL LI,and AIZO to the MAHI,BARIBA,PHILA-PHILA,ASANTE,ANLO-WE,TANEKA,DINDI,PEULH,ALL CONTRIBUTED TO WHAT LATER CAME TO BE KNOWN AS THE VODOUN RELIGION.Further the Fon were not the major group.It is the Ewe of Togo of whom the FON are a subgroup ,who actually introducedthe word "Vudu".
Additionally ,another popular misconceptionregarding Vodun's origin is that it was developed in Haiti when African slaves were transported to the New World.And that it owes its very existence to the consorting of the various indigenous Indians,Christian europeansand other non-African populations who settled in Haiti.However it is important to acknowledge that Haiti has only been an independant republic since 1804,and some anthropologists HAVE ESTIMATED VODUN TO BE AS MUCH AS 10000 (TEN THOUSANDS) YEARS OLD.
Though the above facts might appear minor,this historical omission is important to correct ,because to attribute Vodoun's origin and development exclusively to Haiti,is to deny the direct ancestral spirit and ethnic lineages of the millions of africans brought to the New World carrying the Vodoun in their blood,who are not native to,nor ancestrlly linked to Haiti.
MY OWN GREAT-GREAT-GREAT GRANDPARENTS WHO WERE PRIESTS IN THE VODOUN,but are not of Haitian descent are an example of this.
Undoubtedly ,the Vodoun tradition was already well established ,completely developed and a widely practiced religion prior to its arrival to Haiti.It is also the official religion in BENIN,the only African country that still proudly recognizes its Traditional Religion,as opposed to a western faith imposed on most african republics in order to legitimizethemselves as a civilized nation.
(NAKONTINYE)
AYIBOBO
ABOANNOCHO
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  #2    
Old 05-25-03, 03:49 PM
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IIZÈM LOSYÈ ,
KONVÈSASYON ANT DR OGUNSUYI AK DR MAMAISSI VIVIAN ODELELASI DANSI HOUNON
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Dr AUSTIN OGUNSUYI
5- Some people refer to Vodun as barbaric because it uses animal sacrifice as part of its worship ,what's your reaction to that perception.
Dr MAMAISSI ODELELASI
Because the Vodun religion was a driving force in fighting against slavery and oppression,it was always viewed as a threat to colonial power and rule.Thus it became imperative to both outlaw and debase all aspects of its practice and true beneficient nature.
Hollywood and AMBITIOUS CHRISTIAN EVANGELICALS have been the mainperpetrators of this often racist malignment,often portraying its priests,diviners ,herbalists and healers ,as little more than blood-thirsty charlatins,animal butchers ,shameless frauds and psycho-fanatics.
In truth ,AFRICAN RITUAL PRACTICES ARE NO DIFFERENT IN DIMENSION OR EFFECT THAN ANY OTHER TRADITIONAL RELIGION PRACTICED AROUND THE WORLD.
Such is also the case with animals ,which are and have always been sacred in the Vodun religion.Their consecrated use is the exact same as it has been practiced for centuries in the Judaic,Greek,Roman,Indian-Asian and yes ,Islamic traditional religious practices.
What is equally interesting to note ,is that these same animals that are offered as sacred and often shared in communal meals with the ancestors and Vodou Gods (i.e chicken,goat,turkey,etc),are impassionetely bred ,chemically fed and sacrificed every day in slaughter houses by the millions in the most brutal and inhumane way,for nothing more than to satiate the pleasure palate and voracious appetite of the West.
This is more humane?
Clearly ,it is a matter of perception.
(NA KONTINYE)
AYIBOBO
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  #3    
Old 05-26-03, 08:59 AM
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PETIT JE SUIS COMPLETEMENT D'ACCORD AVEC TOI . UN HOUGAN N'EST PAS UN SCIENTIST ,LA POLITIQUE EST UNE SCIENCE . PETIT TU ES TRES BIEN DANS TON PERISTILE . TU L'AS DIT TOI-MEME TU NE CONNAIS LES HOMMES QUE TU PRETENDES DEFENDRE . TU CONNAIS OGOU ,DAMBALA , LUCIFER .DONK KITE LOT DJAB YO POU MWEN ARISTID, PRIVERT ANGELOT' NEPTUNE AK RENE CIVILE .
SELMAN ROGER PA CHAJE TROP KOB POU YON KOUT KAT. PASKE KKKOK AP DENONSE OU TOU . PASE KAT OU AK KONSYANS !
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Old 05-26-03, 01:41 PM
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Kakkòk,
Oh!Oh
Ou konnen m sezi?
Ou fè yon entèvansyon san w pa di ke Aristide se vòlò,se kriminel,se dilè dwòg.
Genlè gen espwa pou w toujou.
Kakakòk ,mwen pa kwè nan okenn relijyon.Men mwen rekonèt ke relijyon gen anpil pou l wè ak kilti.
Lè w gen yon pèp ki gen yon kilti (ki pwodui relijyon an) ki la depi plis ke 10 mil an ,epi ou gen yon bann VATERYEN,ENBESIL,ki di ke
sa l kwè an enferyè ,e sitou si pèp sa a entènalizè bagay sa a ,pèp sa a ap gen gwo pwoblèm.
Pa gen anyen ki siperyè nan kilti ewopeyen yo,600 zan de sa se Ewòp ki te pi anreta nan tout kontinan yo.
Si w vle diskite de sa ,mwen gen materyo pou ou.
Epi monfrè ,w ap pale de vodou e pi w mansyone Lucifer.
Lucifer ak dyab ,ak Satan pa ekziste nan Vodou.
Lucifer ,Dyab,Satan ,se yon ENVANSYON relijyon Kretyen yo,sa pa menm ekziste nan Judaism.
Ou bezwen diskite de vodou,vin ak agiman.
Sa wap fè la,lè w ap itilize de bagay ki vin kliche ,pa enteresan.Se stipidite.
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  #5    
Old 05-26-03, 06:52 PM
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Ou bezwen diskite de vodou,vin ak agiman.
Sa wap fè la,lè w ap itilize de bagay ki vin kliche ,pa enteresan.Se stipidite.
Petit fok ou fe atansyon ! Forom lan toujou rete yon bagay serye ! Men toujou genyen ti boutad ! Se le lo nap pale de JBA nou pi serye paske nou chaje ak prev ! PETIT ROGER MWEB PARE POU NWEN E MAIL OU YOB JE KAT TOUT NEF A KONDISYON OU LA WE KI LE ARISTID AP KITE PEYI A !
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  #6    
Old 05-27-03, 12:50 AM
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Roger,
Diskisyon sou Vodou ou soulve la a pa nan avantajk Kkkok. Ou pa remake chak fwa ta gen yon bagay serye pou diskite sou fowom nan misye kouri pibliye plizyè "zen" san pye ni tèt pou okipe espas la. Kidonk, li atwofye diskisyon valab yo depi nan ze. Paske misyon li se fè sou Haitiwebs menm sa l ap fè sou soc.culture.haiti a sou non Archibald d'Arsenic, sou haitianconnection ak tout lot kote li pase. Voye "zen" monte pou moun ki pa mande plis. Gade Haiti Observateur, wethehaitians, haitiinfo ak moun epi ou va remake se menm teknik lan KKKok itilize. Ekip sa a gen menm kalite fiksasyon yo: "zen" anti-Aristide maten midi swa, langaj devègonde sou koze sèks epi yon fos kote pou Meriken ekstremis ki opouvwa alekile yo.
KKKok pa fou, li konn sa l ap fe. Ou remake kijan, mwen pa janm pale de koze cheve siwo nan tèks mwen an, epi misye kouri ekri yon tèks ak tit cheve siwo blablabla ... konsa li eseye nwaye koze serye ki te soulve nan tèks la. Li bay enpresyon se yon koze tèeratè osijè cheve siwo mwen te soulve epi tousuit li satire fowom nan ak menm ansyen tentennad li renmen kole pyese yo.
Ou kwè se konnen li pa konnen, se dyèdyè li dyèdyè konsa vre?
Afè l l ap okipe vye frè!
An pasan KKKok, kisa k pase moun depi maten an, mwen remake li pa fonksyone. Ki konfli ki genyen nan mitan ekip reyaksyonè yo? Bannou ti zen sou bo sa a tou non monchè....
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  #7    
Old 05-27-03, 01:51 AM
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Voye "zen" monte pou moun ki pa mande plis. Gade Haiti Observateur, wethehaitians, haitiinfo ak moun epi ou va remake se menm teknik lan KKKok itilize. Ekip sa a gen menm kalite fiksasyon yo: "zen" anti-Aristide maten midi swa, langaj devègonde sou koze sèks epi yon fos kote pou Meriken ekstremis ki opouvwa alekile yo.
SE PA YE WAP CHACHE ASOSYE MWEN AK MOUN MWEN PA JANM EKRI SOU MOUN OU PALE DE WETHEHAITIANS MWEN PA JANM KONNEN BAGAY KONSA .
MWEN KONNEN KEK FWA SOU SIT OPL SAKAFET HAITI CONNECTION .
LO OU TAP PALE DE TET GRENN NOU VOYE FE KOUDETA A , KI KONTRE TETE GRENN ? SE PA CHEVE SIRO ?
MWEN PA CACHE MEN POU MWEN VOYE ROCH ?
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Old 05-27-03, 09:00 PM
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Pignon : un des points de transit des trafiquants de stupéfiants
La commune de Pignon est frappée de plein fouet par le trafic illicite de la drogue. La localité a, à plusieurs reprises, été visitée par de petits avions transportant des marchandises prohibées.
Une fois n?est pas coutume mais six fois de suite, c?est déjà une habitude qui s?installe. Et qui l?aurait cru, Pignon figurerait un jour sur la liste des points de transit de la drogue. Les trafiquants l?ont décidé ainsi suivant les avantages stratégiques qu?offre cette petite localité. Cette dernière, rappelons-le, se trouve à une cinquantaine de kilomètres de la métropole du Nord (Cap-Haitien). Et, en raison de l?absence d?un poste de police au niveau de l?aéroport communautaire de Pignon, le trafic illicite de stupéfiants se fait en toute quiétude sous la protection d?hommes cagoulés et lourdement armés, selon des témoins.
Le scénario est le même à chaque opération. Les trafiquants venus récupérer les produits prohibés tirent dans tous les sens pour forcer les gens à se terrer chez eux au moment du débarquement. On a signalé également l?agression subie par un ressortissant américain en mission à Pignon. Les pignonais qui redoutent que leur commune ne se transforme en un véritable point de transit de la drogue appellent les autorités à intervenir dans le dossier. Les protestataires s?attendent à ce que les agents de la lutte contre le trafic des stupéfiants viennent enquêter et parallèlement sécuriser l?aéroport communautaire de Pignon qui dispose depuis quelque temps d?un bâtiment pouvant accueillir des représentants de l?administration aéroportuaire de Port-au-Prince.
Depuis les dernières violences occasionnées en avril et mai par l?atterrissage à l?aéroport de Pignon de petits avions pilotés par de présumés colombiens, l?insécurité met en péril les initiatives prises en vue du développement économique et social de la commune. Les pignonais parlent de véritable menace pour l?avenir de la localité. Une situation qui devrait intéresser les autorités de l?Etat, d?autant que, selon des témoins, les trafiquants circulent à bord de véhicule portant des plaques d?immatriculation "officiel ".
A défaut d?une intervention des responsables, les pignonais se tiennent prêts à combattre eux-même le trafic de la drogue dans leur localité. Ils lancent une mise en garde aux trafiquants en annonçant que ces derniers seraient pourchassés par tous les moyens en cas d?éventuel retour.
Les pignonais qui ont un niveau de développement humain avancé comparativement aux autres communes du pays n?entendent pas cautionner le trafic de la drogue, soutiennent-ils. Ils veulent plutôt continuer à s?organiser avec leur propre moyen pour se doter de routes modernes, de téléphone et d?électricité.
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Old 05-30-03, 07:53 AM
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IIIÈME LÒSYÈ
Konvèsasyon ant Dr OGUNSUYI ak Dr Mamaissii ODELELASI
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr OGUNSUYI
What is the role of "magic" in your religion?Is it meant to deceive or prove its potency?
Dr VIVIAN ODELELASI
T his is perhaps one of the biggest myths regarding the esoteric understanding of African Traditional Religions in general,and the Vodoun religion in particular.There is no use of magic in Vodoun as it is understood and practiced in the West.
However ,there are aspects of phenomena ,or what some would regard as "miracles" that are made manifest by the Vodou spirits themselves.But these manifestations in no way involve the use of "magic" or "trickery" as Hollywood has often misrepresented it.
Additionally ,to attribute the concept of "deception" to the Vodou religion is to completely misunderstand the philosophical and pratical nature of the Vodou divinities.
The ethical and moral structure of the Dahomean Vodun religion,by definition is to uphold and honor the Divine Law as taught to and passed down to us from our very first African ancestors who served the Vodou spirits.
It is in the Vodou that all aspects of one's nature is actually revealed and (if necessary) exposed before the world in order that one may *not* deceive either themselves nor their community.This is merely ,one of the ways that harmony and balance is achievd by exposing those who would deceive.
Dr OGUNSUYI
T here have been allegations that most Vodou adherents believe in life after death?
Mamaissii VIVIAN ODELELASI
Yes ,this is correct.The concept of death and its alleged permanency is foreign in African religions ,in general.Life is continuous and immutable.That is how the world of the Ancestors exist.This is not a "belief" or something that has to be quantitavely measured and proven,but is a known fact to the practitioner.
AYIBOBO
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